tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post112424942421312747..comments2023-06-13T06:15:10.688-04:00Comments on WAGS Chronicles II : The WAGSENING: Killer MechanicsShemp Duchamphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12143427949411525615noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post-1124472560816725672005-08-19T13:29:00.000-04:002005-08-19T13:29:00.000-04:00on the contraryi think you are both wrongon the contrary<BR/><BR/>i think you are both wrongAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post-1124460016044446892005-08-19T10:00:00.000-04:002005-08-19T10:00:00.000-04:00My nominations for killer mechanics:CivilizationTh...My nominations for killer mechanics:<BR/><BR/>Civilization<BR/><BR/>The Civilization cards, which as well as giving victory points and special powers which feed back into the gameplay, also give discounts on future card purchases. This has been a *very* influential idea in computer gaming.<BR/><BR/>1830<BR/><BR/>The 2D stock market, with prices increasing (horizontally) when your company pays a dividend, and dropping (vertically) when someone sells shares. Brilliantly simple way of giving the flavour of stock market speculation.<BR/><BR/>Note that both these killer mechanics came from the brilliant brain of Francis Tresham.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10825350227973550098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post-1124439278500519422005-08-19T04:14:00.000-04:002005-08-19T04:14:00.000-04:00Another game with the similarity to Bohanza that S...Another game with the similarity to Bohanza that Shemp mentioned and that may better feature that killer 'beans are money' mechanic would be <B> San Juan</B>, the followup to Puerto Rico. As in Bohnanza, in San Juan the cards are the game, but here they are the buildings, the produce, the gold, and in the case of the church card they are pure victory points as well. In San Juan you spend the cards (buildings) to build buildings and use cards to represent goods produced...all of which drive the process of cycling the deck and creates an environment where players try to hold certain cards out of circulation for future play or to prevent others from accessing them but also therby limiting what you can do too because cards drive the game's economy and unused cards are just dead weight in your hand (but sometimes necessary).jaywowzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07445489674990942911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post-1124422958250178982005-08-18T23:42:00.000-04:002005-08-18T23:42:00.000-04:00Shemp,In the same way that a good architectural de...Shemp,<BR/><BR/>In the same way that a good architectural detail looks so obvious that it seems easy after the fact, there doesn't have to be anything "tricky" or "complicated" for a mechanic to be great (I can only guess that by "not special" you are again going back to "just a track, etc, etc"). You just agreed with me on High Society and Tigris & Euphrates, games who's "killer mechanic" are substantially simpler than LotR. Conversley, the fuel market in Power Grid is more involved. If you are not referring to complexity, I'm not sure how you want me to describe what amounts to "special"... It's simply a case of a simple mechanic (the track), which manages to capture the corruption of the hobbits and the search by Sauron in an elegant way which creates a sense of drama, teamwork AND acts as the central mechanic for the game (it runs as the "spine" which unites the events of the various scenarios, and largely determines the loss conditions). That's a lot, and it represents a fundamentally original way of approaching the story to create a game (it's not a simulation of a battle, or of the war... it's about the fellowship, and a struggle against impossible odds). From that point of view the corruption track is a great distillation of an original idea (also note that the parts of the game you seemed to mostly take issue with: the randomly drawn event tiles and the linearity of the scenarios, are not related to this aspect of the game...).<BR/><BR/>errr.... let's move on.<BR/><BR/>Regarding your other comments... In Puerto Rico, I choose Mayor and everyone has to load up on workers. I choose trader and everyone can sell to the trading house. That's what i meant.<BR/><BR/>I also echo your comment on Bohnanza, and the interesting way that the payout for the fields reduces the frequency of that bean.Agent Easyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459988517741244059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post-1124391504744318112005-08-18T14:58:00.000-04:002005-08-18T14:58:00.000-04:00OK, but honestly, I don't see the mechanics of tha...OK, but honestly, I don't see the mechanics of that Lord of the Rings game as being anything special. Your description is about the theme of the game. What is it that makes the corruption track innovative, or special, or genius, or whatever? <BR/><BR/>From a mechanics point of view, it is a timing mechanism that can be affected by the players to hasten or delay the end of the game. It's fine and all, but like I said above, doesn't strike me as anything special. Please elaborate. <BR/><BR/>Seriously.<BR/><BR/>Now, as far as the others, I totally agree with you on T&E, El Grande, High Society and C'thulhu - nothing to add on those. <BR/><BR/>We're in substantial agreement on Power Grid - only difference is that I don't even find the upkeep to be that finicky. It's pretty straightforward as long as the chart is available, and upkeep duties are split amongst the players, IMO.<BR/><BR/>Ra, I don't remember enough to have a real opinion on, I don't think.<BR/><BR/>I'm a little confused by what you are getting at with PR, though - what do you mean about selecting a role for other players?<BR/><BR/>With Bohnanza, I would also add that removing cards from the deck to represent money, thus affecting the odds of drawing certain types of beans is something I would characterize as a genius move. We've played a hand ignoring that mechanic before, and things don't work out nearly as well without it.<BR/><BR/>The other games JW has suggested I'm not familiar with, so again, no comment.<BR/><BR/>I am personally liking the way Colossal Arena works, for much the same reason that Shadows Over Camelot is interesting - almost every step to help yourself in the short term works against you in the long term. I guess this is more of a balancing thing, rather than strictly a mechanics thing.<BR/><BR/>Maybe this should be another thread, but does anyone have an idea for a mechanic that they think would be interesting, but they HAVEN'T seen implemented in a game?Shemp Duchamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143427949411525615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post-1124379960696298562005-08-18T11:46:00.000-04:002005-08-18T11:46:00.000-04:00Shemp,No need to beat this horse again! I know you...Shemp,<BR/><BR/>No need to beat this horse again! I know you don't like the game (despite having only played it once, and with the Sauron and black tiles expansion at that), but I still think the device is clever and original enough to be appreciated without liking the game. To each his own!Agent Easyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459988517741244059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post-1124370997761440292005-08-18T09:16:00.000-04:002005-08-18T09:16:00.000-04:00Hey, Easy, I'll comment more, later, but, as alway...Hey, Easy, I'll comment more, later, but, as always, when it comes to Lord of the Rings YOU ARE HIGH ON CRACK or something.<BR/><BR/>So far from genius, unless you are discussing a genius for TEDIUM.<BR/><BR/>Seriously, it's just a track that counts down. Tons of games have them. Not too exciting, not too interesting. I won't go into detail, since <A HREF="http://wagsociety.blogspot.com/2005/02/sauron-tough.html#c110770833417594692" REL="nofollow">I've said it all before here.</A><BR/><BR/>Like I said, the more positive stuff will follow.Shemp Duchamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143427949411525615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post-1124340039412725542005-08-18T00:40:00.000-04:002005-08-18T00:40:00.000-04:00Jaywowzer,Nice to hear from you!I agree with you o...Jaywowzer,<BR/><BR/>Nice to hear from you!<BR/><BR/>I agree with you on Bohnanza, the fact that the cards you draw have to be played in order IS the game, and makes it a very different experience to most trading games.<BR/><BR/>Samurai is a game I enjoy quite a bit (although I've only played against computer opponents). However, I'm not that impressed with the scoring... not that it's confusing but that it normally ends in virtual ties every game. I prefer the simplicity of the T&E way.<BR/><BR/>Haven't played Trias or San Marco, but they seem interesting! (That mechanic you describe for San Marco, in particular, sounds very clever)Agent Easyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459988517741244059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6932441.post-1124260929487073072005-08-17T02:42:00.000-04:002005-08-17T02:42:00.000-04:00You've got a good list started here to which I hav...You've got a good list started here to which I have one obvious add...<BR/><BR/>San Marco:<BR/><BR/>The game is an area majority contest but the mechanical beauty of the game lies in the card distribution mechanic of I divide, you choose... whereby to get left the card set one desires, you have to make the other piles more attractive to the other players, which is as enjoyable as it is agonizing...but can be AP inducing...deliciously so.<BR/><BR/><BR/>And now that I've started thinking there are certainly others that spring to mind... These include:<BR/><BR/><BR/>Bohnanza:<BR/><BR/>A simple mechanic in action. The decision to fix the card order of the players hand to the order drawn really drives the game by inducing trades as a means to manipulate one's hand composition. <BR/><BR/>Trias:<BR/><BR/>Another area majority game which rises above others for me through the a killer board manipulation mechanic of drifting tiles whcih create a dynamically expanding board throughout the play of the game. <BR/><BR/>Samurai:<BR/><BR/>A modification on the High Society mechanic blended with the balancing ideas inherrent in T&E you noted above is in play here. To be a contender at the end of the game you must have won the most figures in one of the three figues types. Without one such majority you are out of consideration. Of the remaining eligible players, the one with the most figures from the other two types, not counting their majority set, wins. It sounds confusing but has a similar balancing effect as the weak color score of T&E (and also used in Einfach Genial). So that's 1 (2 if you count my E.G. name dropping) more in the Knizia column.jaywowzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07445489674990942911noreply@blogger.com